Trading system being worked on...

[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Trading system being worked on...
« on March 12th, 2017, 05:06 PM »
So, as you probably all know, Barter.vg went crazy and no longer accepts logins, so new users or logged off existing users can no longer send offers.
I took it upon myself to build a basic trading system on Lestrade's this weekend.
I feared it'd be harder said than done, and of course it is.

Here's what I have that's relatively usable right now (NOT open to any users but me while I'm testing):
- Showing a create offer page to any member, where you can see a list of your matching tradables.
- Said page has checkboxes that you can click to select games. Also has a Submit button to send the list to LT's.
- Insertion of an offer into the database.

Due to a number of architectural issues, this is, err... Pretty much all I've got so far.
What's left to do:
- Allow users to select how many items from which side, like Barter does.
- Setup an expiry system.
- Notifications.
- Accept, decline, fail offer.

I don't think it'll take too long, so it's not unlikely that I can complete a really basic system before tomorrow. (Perhaps without the notifications & expiry, since both are linked and I'd rather do them properly. i.e. I may have an expiry date set, but maybe LT's won't honor it for now.)
However there are a few points that I'd like to ask opinions about.

Here's the first.
How do you feel about storing every item's ratio at the time the offer was sent/edited? Is it of any use? I was thinking, if someone sends an offer with a rare game that was just bundled and the receiver only sees it 2 days later, they might see a much worse ratio than when originally sent, and get offended (yes, I'm wary of easily offended traders). If the site indicates the original ratio (or more likely, the current ratio + the original ratio if it's different by more than 10 or 20%?), they may just consider that "well, too bad for you, your game lost value in the meantime", and decline without getting offended. My only concern with storing ratios is that it takes more database space, and in the long run could make the whole thing a bit slower. I've even made the column the smallest possible size I could get away with (3 bytes), by storing them as 2 twelve-bit numbers (that's about 4000 items max... If you have that many traders with that item in their tradables, it's pretty much infinity to me. Even 300+ is infinity to me.)

If I can remember my other concerns, I'll post them here. Also feel free to post suggestions, but only after I've released an initial version. This whole damn thing is making me very weak right now, and I need to focus.
Re: Trading system being worked on...
« Reply #1, on March 12th, 2017, 07:05 PM »
Oh yeah, second question: when should I stop importing Barter tradables/wishlists automatically, while leaving the ability to sync manually?
1/ Right now?
2/ When I enable the trade system?
3/ When I enable the ability to add/remove items locally on your lists? (Which should hopefully be right after 2)
4/ When I enable the ability to add/remove tags to your lists? (Which might take longer I'm afraid...)

Akylen

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Re: Trading system being worked on...
« Reply #2, on March 12th, 2017, 07:49 PM »
Quote from Lestrade on March 12th, 2017, 05:06 PM
...
However there are a few points that I'd like to ask opinions about.

Here's the first.
How do you feel about storing every item's ratio at the time the offer was sent/edited? Is it of any use? I was thinking, if someone sends an offer with a rare game that was just bundled and the receiver only sees it 2 days later, they might see a much worse ratio than when originally sent, and get offended (yes, I'm wary of easily offended traders). If the site indicates the original ratio (or more likely, the current ratio + the original ratio if it's different by more than 10 or 20%?), they may just consider that "well, too bad for you, your game lost value in the meantime", and decline without getting offended. My only concern with storing ratios is that it takes more database space, and in the long run could make the whole thing a bit slower. I've even made the column the smallest possible size I could get away with (3 bytes), by storing them as 2 twelve-bit numbers (that's about 4000 items max... If you have that many traders with that item in their tradables, it's pretty much infinity to me. Even 300+ is infinity to me.)
I like this feature. Makes total sense and could help prevent a few ignores.
Quote from Lestrade on March 12th, 2017, 07:05 PM
Oh yeah, second question: when should I stop importing Barter tradables/wishlists automatically, while leaving the ability to sync manually?
1/ Right now?
2/ When I enable the trade system?
3/ When I enable the ability to add/remove items locally on your lists? (Which should hopefully be right after 2)
4/ When I enable the ability to add/remove tags to your lists? (Which might take longer I'm afraid...)
I'd say 3.
Actually this could be on its own post so people can 'vote'.

[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Re: Trading system being worked on...
« Reply #3, on March 12th, 2017, 09:08 PM »
Quote from Akylen on March 12th, 2017, 07:49 PM
I like this feature. Makes total sense and could help prevent a few ignores.
Yeah, LT's is after all also the sum of ideas I've had over the year for better trading policies.
Not all will be unanimous, of course.
Quote from Akylen on March 12th, 2017, 07:49 PM
I'd say 3.
Actually this could be on its own post so people can 'vote'.
I don't really need to do a poll for that (how do you know you can only post a poll on a topic opener? :P) (Well, I guess if you used SMF before...) (Gosh I should really update Wedge to allow for polls to be posted anywhere... It's not that hard.)
Just a couple votes would be enough.
Re: Trading system being worked on...
« Reply #4, on March 12th, 2017, 10:55 PM »
Release postponed to tomorrow.
I'd like to thank the missus who reluctantly agreed to take care of her kid by herself today so I could focus on the trading system. If it's not out today, it's because, well, it's not ready. I'm not a genius coder who can write an entire app in 3 hours, but I'm also the only coder who was willing to do it so I guess I shouldn't feel so bad. :P
I'll post screenshots of my work in progress tomorrow if you want.

soitin [UkroGT]

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[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Re: Trading system being worked on...
« Reply #6, on March 13th, 2017, 03:02 PM »
You don't know what I'm doing right now :P Maybe I'm completely breaking the site!

Oh, I forgot to say about the ability to edit tradables-- the 'problem' is that the current table, being Barter-oriented, stores member IDs as Barter IDs. My Barter ID is 880, which in hex means 2176, so that's what is stored in the field, which, I know, is completely stupid. But that's how I did things back when I fixed the scraper to quickly open the site in early February. It means I'll have to remember to add a new field with a proper Lt member ID, do the conversion, and then delete the older field, rename the new one, and pray that it doesn't break anything. That'll be fun.

Strange site. I keep feeling like I'm in crunchtime before release, because there's always a big feature the community is waiting for. First it was matches, then trades... I guess after that I'll need to focus on automating the bundle importer. (And figure out what to do with Steamgifts. I'm thinking of both writing a scraper for Racharts posts and asking the Steamgifts volunteers to post their messages to LT's and fill in the blanks they might have forgotten.)

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Re: Trading system being worked on...
« Reply #7, on March 13th, 2017, 10:41 PM »
Want to use this opportunity to say a big THANK YOU!
Thanks for volunteering your free time to fill the void barter has left and communicating your thoughts!

I just joined barter a few days before it crashed, so happy to see an active community evolve here.

[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Re: Trading system being worked on...
« Reply #8, on March 13th, 2017, 11:26 PM »
I don't know for now; I'll be giving Alex some kind of access, and you too obviously. Rowtan if he asks for it. And myself in case I find something interesting. I'm still on the fence regarding importing ITAD bundles though. Sometimes they have some interesting bundle showing up in their list that isn't mentioned elsewhere.

SALTYteaBAG

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Re: Trading system being worked on...
« Reply #9, on March 14th, 2017, 02:00 AM »
I also would like to say a quick thanks for doing this. I only recently got into trading and even more recently got involved with Barter. It is nice to know such a nice community will be kept afloat by one volunteering their time/resources for all. Thank you, Lestrade.

soitin [UkroGT]

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Re: Trading system being worked on...
« Reply #10, on March 14th, 2017, 09:41 AM »
Hey mate!

I guess you have to put pair of not too boring banners on the lestrades.com
SG does such a thing and no one upbraiding them.
Any work have to be rewarded especially so useful for community.

[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Re: Trading system being worked on...
« Reply #11, on March 14th, 2017, 03:02 PM »
soitin, I don't get what you're talking about... Advertising? That's not even on topic. ^^

Okay, I've got a quick question (on topic this time. :P)

I'm working on sorting lists within the new offer page. I'd like to know if you guys think it's best to sort both your side and their side the same way, or if it'd be nice to have two different sort orders, one per side..? Like, "I'm sorting their games by cards because I'm looking for games with cards, and I'm sorting my games by ratio because I want to get rid of my common games".
In favor of a common sort system: simplicity (+ it's like in Barter). In favor of two different sorting systems: well it's obvious.
I'm not sure whether I should store these sort orders in a cookie (means more data transmitted for nothing), or in the server session (more complicated for me because I have to do some Ajax magic when right now it's all in the browser), or not at all.

And yes, the sort system is working. I'll move it to the wishlist/tradable portion as well, where this question isn't much of a problem since there's only one 'side' to look at.

'One more thing....'
Sorting is done on the spot. No need for page reloads. :D

Akylen

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Re: Trading system being worked on...
« Reply #12, on March 14th, 2017, 08:15 PM »
Unless I didn't understand correctly... Is there any reason why one side can't have it's own order without affecting the other side? Good feature. Makes sense for each trader to sort by her preferences.

[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Re: Trading system being worked on...
« Reply #13, on March 14th, 2017, 10:54 PM »
You know, when you send an offer on Barter, your list of games is sorted using the same order as your Wishlist and Tradables page. But the other trader's tradables are also sorted using the same method. It is technically possible for me to differentiate between both lists and show two dropdowns, one for each list. It just makes the page a bit busier, and perhaps it's too hardcore for some users. So for now I'm only using one dropdown, and we'll see if there are requests for another one. I haven't decided how I'll keep track of the latest requested order across all offer pages, though.

Falgen

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Re: Trading system being worked on...
« Reply #14, on March 14th, 2017, 11:50 PM »
I've been a user of barter for a couple months now and enjoyed the heck out of it. I'm new to this whole trading thing and was dubious at first, but everyone I have traded with has been great and barter just hit the spot compared to other sites. It is unfortunate that it is dying, but now we can all move on to a better system. I (we, the whole trading community!) greatly appreciate your hard work on this replacement project!

In regards to list sorting, I'll cast a vote for different sorting methods for each side, but as more of a "stretch" goal, if you will. Organization is excellent and it would be beneficial in scenarios such as you mentioned, but I for one would rather have a solid trading system than be able to fine-tune the details of lists. That feels like more of a bonus feature.