OpenSource?

Ipanema

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OpenSource?
« on March 15th, 2017, 12:14 PM »
Is it planed to release lestrade as open source (at least partly)? Maybe some of us could help out...

EnemyWithin (lvl 100/2000 games)

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Re: OpenSource?
« Reply #1, on March 15th, 2017, 01:00 PM »
I had asked the same question and was told he wasn't planning on open sourcing it.  Hopefully he will change his mind :)

[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Re: OpenSource?
« Reply #2, on March 15th, 2017, 05:28 PM »
And for the short answer:
Quote from Ipanema on March 15th, 2017, 12:14 PM
Is it planed to release lestrade as open source (at least partly)?
99% of the source code is open-sourced at https://github.com/Wedge/wedge/ ;)
498.000+ lines open-sourced.
~3.300 lines not open-sourced. In fact that's not even 1%.
Quote from Ipanema on March 15th, 2017, 12:14 PM
Maybe some of us could help out...
I'm always eager to get contributions to the forum software!

✪trololo

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Re: OpenSource?
« Reply #3, on March 15th, 2017, 08:56 PM »
I guess people meant on open sourcing the code that handles the steam auth, trades-matching etc. since barter will be no more if that code was open source, then a clone would popup faster.

[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Re: OpenSource?
« Reply #4, on March 15th, 2017, 09:03 PM »
....1) open sourcing doesn't mean it's licensed for use on other sites.
2) clone? But.. isn't that what Lestrade's is?
3) you mean another site maybe? Why would I write code for another site to use? So that they don't have to do the actual work?

I'm not sure what's wrong with Lestrade's to you. Once the trading system is online, there will be no reason to complain about it. Especially since I'm not planning to disappear overnight...

Quantum

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Re: OpenSource?
« Reply #5, on March 16th, 2017, 01:30 AM »Last edited on March 16th, 2017, 01:45 AM
This post is also insightful regarding this matter:
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/bartervg/discussions/0/133259227518441895/?ctp=6#c133259227533596680

Nao's reasons to not want help with coding roughly summarized: (I did my best to summarize concisely, please correct if inaccurate)
- Continuity is not an issue due to safeguards being in place. This makes sense to me.
- Security is better as closed source. This is pretty disputable as one of the advantages of open source is that code gets a lot more eyes on it.
- Nao is anal about code consistency, so it would end up costing more time. This one makes sense to me.
- 99% of this site is already open source. This seems irrelevant to me as all people care about is the 1% trading part ;-).
- Someone might clone the source code & create a clone, basically stealing Nao's work. This makes sense to me, but I'm not sure on how big of a problem this generally is with open source projects (some probably keep the core functions closed source, while making some of the other stuff open source).

Personally I hope that you'll allow / find a way to allow more code contribution from the community eventually as I do think that will make a better site if managed properly and it could really help with more features / dividing workload ;-). Maybe it'd be an option in example to allow some specific functions to be done by other people (i.e. a scraper or styling of the site).

In the end you are right though; you're the only one building a successor and we're free not to use it, so if you don't want to, that's your prerogative for lestrades. And regardless: Thanks for all the work!

inactive_do_not_send_offers

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Re: OpenSource?
« Reply #6, on March 16th, 2017, 02:52 AM »
Quote from Lestrade on March 15th, 2017, 05:28 PM
99% of the source code is open-sourced at https://github.com/Wedge/wedge/ ;)
498.000+ lines open-sourced.
~3.300 lines not open-sourced. In fact that's not even 1%.
Now you're just playing on words, aren't you. When people say "open-source" nowadays they mean in the same way as Linux, the Apache web server, and so on. 0% of your code is "free as in freedom" so you're just misleading these people at this point. Yeah they can read your source, but they're forbidden to use it in their own project, and if they contribute they have zero control on what you do with their contribution, i.e. exactly what copyleft licenses were designed to prevent.
Quote
Why would I write code for another site to use? So that they don't have to do the actual work?
*hush* *whisper* I think that's how open-source communities work, so people aren't forced to continuously reinvent the wheel.

Just put your sentence in the mouth of Linux, Ubuntu, LibreOffice, Chromium, Firefox authors and so forth, and tell me if it isn't hilarious.

Anyways nobody's forcing you to make your code free as in freedom (even though everyone would like you to do it so it becomes community property so to speak), but please keep in mind the common meaning of words next time.

Ipanema

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Re: OpenSource?
« Reply #7, on March 16th, 2017, 07:55 AM »
Quote from Lestrade on March 15th, 2017, 09:03 PM
Once the trading system is online, there will be no reason to complain about it. Especially since I'm not planning to disappear overnight...
In case a simple feature parity with barther is the final target open source doesn't make sense. From my perspective as a user and developer the ux of barther at some points are quite awkward. In case you are open minded for improvements open sourcing some of the parts would be quite helpfull. Maybe it would make sense to keep some of the serverside steam/trading/whatever stuff initially closed and just provide access to the ui components. Maybe if this works out you change your mind about some other parts.

But once again. Thanks for all of your work. :cool:



Forum Conventions

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Re: OpenSource?
« Reply #8, on March 16th, 2017, 10:21 AM »Last edited on March 16th, 2017, 10:26 AM
Quote from UncleYar on March 16th, 2017, 02:52 AM
-snip-
Code can be open-source, but under a restrictive license. Other than that, I agree with everything else in this post.

Either way, I don't think any of us are interested in contributing to some forum software that - no offense - we'll probably never use.

[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Re: OpenSource?
« Reply #9, on March 16th, 2017, 10:58 AM »
Yes, Wedge is open source but not FOSS, it's not 'libre' but if you check out the website, you'll find out I often discussed publishing certain interesting portions I wrote (notably JavaScript modules) under the MIT license, but there never was much interest. I wanted to release a stand-alone version of my CSS preprocessor because it was much superior to LESS when I wrote it in 2011 (I don't know the state of CSS preprocessors these days), but again, no interest from the community.

I know exactly how open source works and how to use it. The source code for *everything* I wrote for 6 years is available on Github. If LT users suddenly start sending a ton of nice pull requests for Wedge (which again represents exactly 99.337% of LT's codebase, and that I'm using *right now* to write this reply), then I may be tempted to share my source code for LT's with them so they can add to it. But that's up to *me*. Just like it was up to me to keep working on Wedge because I believed in it, even though I only received $5 in donations in 5 years of full-time work.

But that wasn't the real question now, was it?
The real question is whether I'm being judged for the actions of another. "Barter's admin left his website, so his successor must ensure this won't happen again."
Yes, it won't happen again, but not because I've taken a vow. It won't happen again because I'm a responsible person. The road to this website was tough, with some people making my life harder. Yet when Barter broke in early February, I stepped up and took it upon myself to release LT's to the public, even if it wasn't ready, just so the website could help as needed. And now with logout issues, my project no longer looks that silly or inconsiderate.

I do not owe anyone anything aside from my assurance that I'm doing my best to turn LT into a project I can be proud of. When I start something, I finish it. I may be late by a few days for the offer system, but that's because I'm slower than I'd like to admit, and that I like doing things the right way. I'm a tortoise. I'll make it to the finish line.