[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #15,  »
I already said it can't.
Barter doesn't disclose ignored members publicly. It only shows them members YOU ignore for instance, and not members who ignore you. Why is ridiculous because it still allows you to filter games against those who ignore you. And it does indicate the user is ignoring you, at that point. It's a half arsed implementation at best.

I could implement ignoring users manually here, but you still would see matches for people who ignore you.

Akylen

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #16,  »
Quote from Nao 尚 on February 28th, 2017, 08:09 PM
I already said it can't.
Barter doesn't disclose ignored members publicly. It only shows them members YOU ignore for instance, and not members who ignore you. Why is ridiculous because it still allows you to filter games against those who ignore you. And it does indicate the user is ignoring you, at that point. It's a half arsed implementation at best.

I could implement ignoring users manually here, but you still would see matches for people who ignore you.
Ahh right! That makes sense.

It would be good to have that feature here then. I like how we can say: "skip this user in matches for X amount of time". It is never permanent. If that is made into a list, even better. We get a clear picture.

jeremy.jj

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #17,  »Last edited
I can no longer see the game search bar in the top right.  Was it removed?  Now there is a notifications bar that seems to occlude the old search area.

edit: search bar is back.

[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #18,  »
Yes Jeremy, it was a bug. I largely rewrote the header to be fixed (like in Barter), and I didn't test it enough.
After your post I kept modifying the code, so it may have broken at times, too.
I'm not 100% done, but I'm getting very close to what I was looking for.
Quote from Akylen on February 28th, 2017, 11:45 PM
It would be good to have that feature here then.
Let's just say that features that arbitrarily diminish the number of possible matches aren't going to be implemented unless there's a real userbase commitment to it.
I can't even enumerate all the people on Barter who added me to their ignore list without warning because I *argumented* how I valued a game in a trade. That isn't to say I said "My game is better you suck!", no, I said things like "It was bundled x times and lowest Steam price was recently y, so I think a 2:1 is more balanced than your 1:1". And voilà, I get ignored. I'd rather have a tool that allows people to counter that. For instance, notify people that they were put on an ignore list. They can then argue in public that the ignorer is an incompetent trader. Or possibly a better solution: keep an online track of everyone's ignore lists. If someone ignores many people who aren't ignored by many others, they might be flagged as 'quick shots' and as such demoted from trader reputation rankings.
Hmm yeah I like that idea.

In fact it's close in spirit to my plans to give everyone two rep systems: the completed offer rep (like Barter), and a trader reputation rep (possibly anonymous), which would allow one to rate someone's likeability (basically, a 'Recommended' rating.)
Site contributors (admin, host, moderators?) would probably be free from that rating, though, because they might be biased toward their site role rather than trader role.

Akylen

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #19,  »
Quote from Lestrade on March 4th, 2017, 11:08 AM
Yes Jeremy, it was a bug. I largely rewrote the header to be fixed (like in Barter), and I didn't test it enough.
After your post I kept modifying the code, so it may have broken at times, too.
I'm not 100% done, but I'm getting very close to what I was looking for.
Quote from Akylen on February 28th, 2017, 11:45 PM
It would be good to have that feature here then.
Let's just say that features that arbitrarily diminish the number of possible matches aren't going to be implemented unless there's a real userbase commitment to it.
I can't even enumerate all the people on Barter who added me to their ignore list without warning because I *argumented* how I valued a game in a trade. That isn't to say I said "My game is better you suck!", no, I said things like "It was bundled x times and lowest Steam price was recently y, so I think a 2:1 is more balanced than your 1:1". And voilà, I get ignored. I'd rather have a tool that allows people to counter that. For instance, notify people that they were put on an ignore list. They can then argue in public that the ignorer is an incompetent trader. Or possibly a better solution: keep an online track of everyone's ignore lists. If someone ignores many people who aren't ignored by many others, they might be flagged as 'quick shots' and as such demoted from trader reputation rankings.
Hmm yeah I like that idea.

In fact it's close in spirit to my plans to give everyone two rep systems: the completed offer rep (like Barter), and a trader reputation rep (possibly anonymous), which would allow one to rate someone's likeability (basically, a 'Recommended' rating.)
Site contributors (admin, host, moderators?) would probably be free from that rating, though, because they might be biased toward their site role rather than trader role.
It is in the trader's right to ignore anyone she wants. After all the trader owns the game and she will have specific criteria for their trades. I don't mind being ignored, I know it is not personally but rather a criteria. There are plenty of other traders with similar criteria to mine. Think of ignore as a polite manner to say: "Sorry but we clearly can't reach to an agreement. It is better if we don't trade for a while".
Criteria's could change however, that is why I think ignoring for a certain period is very powerful, as opposed to ignoring forever.

With that said, publicising ignore lists or making trader's argue about ignores will be a complete disaster and will ruin the experience for passionate traders. Effectively that would make the trading system a parody, everyone needs to like everyone and have the same criteria! World doesn't work like that.

I agree with notifying those who get ignored. Make the ignore with a mandatory message, so that the trader being ignored knows the reason why.

I think there is a place for a public trader blacklist. For instance, rude, fake, mal intentioned, problematic traders would have a place in there. It is in the interest of the community to expel people with these characteristics! Not sure how that fits with steamtrades feedback, but it could be something interesting.

Could we start with a simple ranking mechanism? Similar to how forums or ebay works. The more feedback you have, the better your star is. To calculate the ranking could be something like
Code: [Select]
completed trades / completed trades + failed trades

[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #20,  »
You know, you don't have to use bold characters, it's likened to screaming. I hear you alright. I'm willing to listen since no one seems to have an interest in discussing anything on these forums... :-/ (At some point I even wondered if I hadn't broken some permissions.)

Akylen

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #21,  »
Quote from Lestrade on March 9th, 2017, 12:27 PM
You know, you don't have to use bold characters, it's likened to screaming. I hear you alright. I'm willing to listen since no one seems to have an interest in discussing anything on these forums... :-/ (At some point I even wondered if I hadn't broken some permissions.)
That wasn't the intention at all. I used bold just to emphasise a point.
Hopefully we will have more viewpoints on this.

[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #22,  »
Ignore lists as implemented on LT (not active for now) last forever, and it would complicate the ui to make it possible to ignore for a limited time. Barter has a skip feature that does the same job, but people don't use it-- possibly because you can't view your current skips.
It would be technically feasible to ignore a combination of one game + one user, I.e. this user can no longer offer me anything for that game, or I don't want to see that game in their tradables because they're asking too much for it and I'd be wasting my time. But it's also complex to implement -- should I add an ignore button next to the game in the offer? Would need to educate users as to what it does, too.
It's just so annoying. Barter has a good system but its ignore lists really encourage shrinking your possibilities.

Akylen

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #23,  »Last edited
Quote from Lestrade on March 9th, 2017, 03:34 PM
Ignore lists as implemented on LT (not active for now) last forever, and it would complicate the ui to make it possible to ignore for a limited time. Barter has a skip feature that does the same job, but people don't use it-- possibly because you can't view your current skips.
It would be technically feasible to ignore a combination of one game + one user, I.e. this user can no longer offer me anything for that game, or I don't want to see that game in their tradables because they're asking too much for it and I'd be wasting my time. But it's also complex to implement -- should I add an ignore button next to the game in the offer? Would need to educate users as to what it does, too.
It's just so annoying. Barter has a good system but its ignore lists really encourage shrinking your possibilities.
Could be one of the possibilites. Some traders insist on the same games and it just doesn't go anywhere.

If it is complicated to ignore for a limited time, keep the ignore forever with liabilities. What do you think showing a popup/sending an email from time to time for the trader to review his ignore list? Ideally showing the users ignored for the longest first on a separate page!
Maybe also show the ignore list on the right side on the trade list. Not sure how intrusive it could be, so perhaps make it optional.

[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #24,  »Last edited
Just a quick note: I've been having problems with matches since last night. I made a very minor change to the query to prevent results that might be too complex for the server, and I noticed I no longer get complete matches. (I still get thousands, but for some reason after a while I get a page crash.)
I'll try to restart with yesterday's copy of the site, just to test and figure out what's wrong. I'm not even sure you guys are seeing the same problems as I do. Just wanted to let it be known that if you're having problems, the fact that I'm not fixing them is because I'm busy completing the offer system. ;)

:edit: Apparently it's only started this morning so this would be unrelated. Also, the page loads ALL elements, it's just that for some reason it doesn't show them all at once... It shows about 95%, then stalls for 30 seconds or so, then it shows the rest. So weird. I'll just have a quick look, because I'm too curious not to try to fix that.

:edit: Okay, found the problem... Wasn't with my match code actually. Normally it only affected me, as an administrator. So, I fixed it for myself, shouldn't change anything for you.

Quantum

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #25,  »
Is sorting by Ratio (rarest first) broken on the Tradeables page? All the other filters seem to work fine, but this one does nothing.

Nedkelly

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #26,  »
I have the same problem, also think ratio sorting is a problem on 'wishlist' site :hmm:


[Lestrades.com] Nao 尚

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #27,  »
It's working for me, did you happen to post during the few minutes where I was rewriting the ratio code? :P

Quantum

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #28,  »
Quote from Lestrade on March 21st, 2017, 12:14 AM
It's working for me, did you happen to post during the few minutes where I was rewriting the ratio code? :P
Did a CTRL-F5 and tried again. No difference (all other filters cause the list to change, that one doesn't). Firefox.

I also tried on Chrome and on Chrome the list does change, but the filtering shown is absolutely not most rare at the top.

Pika! Pika!

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Re: Issue(s)
« Reply #29,  »Last edited
Personally I am not a fan of ignore forever lists. As a matter of fact I prefer to not ignore anyone as it simply maximizes the chances of making a deal. Most of those ignores seem to originate from miscommunication resulting from a lack of understanding each other's valuation method. Those judgments are made in an instant and can last forever. It might have had nothing to do with the individual at all....for all you know the other trader had a bad day at work or his/her dog died and that frustration then can get expressed in a trade. If I do not like the offers someone one might give me, I prefer to talk about it and discuss why I am not interested, so that it is less likely to happen again.

I might have expressed the situation with permanent ignores not correctly above. The issue is that it tends to happen too swiftly and without notice and one can thus cannot remedy it most of the time. So what I would therefore like to propose is a sort of 'cards' system whereby you can warn another trader that you really do not like certain offers. So what I propose is that as a trader you can give another trader a 'green card', then a 'yellow card' (with or without a temporary ignore of a day, 3 days, a week or a month) and then a 'red card' with the 'red card' being a permanent ignore. That should provide enough flexibility to work things out. If a trader then notices they have received a green or yellow card, they can try to talk it out with that other trader or at least be aware that there is something they preferably can do differently instead of receiving those one hit knockouts that seem to come out of nowhere. What would work even better is if the trader who gives the other trader a card has to specify what they do not like such as behaviour, steam prices comparison, H/W ratio comparison, wishlisted total comparison, price paid comparison, G2A price comparison, multiple valuation methods, gameplay difference or the perception that the other trader seeks to profit systematically from each trade. That way the trader who has been given the warning card can work on the issue and improve not only the future trades they make, but also the community.